From the Room to the Cap Table | Chris Lyons, a16z

Brandon (00:15) All right, welcome back to the Owner Mode Summit. Very happy to welcome my brother, Chris Lyons. Obviously he's someone that people have probably recognized. He's been in all the rooms, right? And I remember meeting Chris over a decade ago back in Silicon Valley. And he was at that point in the rooms, right? But he's only really elevated his game. And in many ways, he epitomizes the conversation or the theme for this Owner Mode Summit, which is the private investing.

So this talk is all about the evolution of the private markets. But before we get into it at all, I think a lot of people probably have seen or heard about Chris's journey, but we got to start there, Chris. ⁓ Listen. Of course. You know, it appreciates you taking the time, man, because obviously it's a lot going on. feel like, you know, me and myself spent almost a decade in Silicon Valley. It was always a fast paced culture, but.

Chris (00:52) Good to see you, man. And shout out to everybody here today. Absolutely. I appreciate the time.

Brandon (01:07) We're like in warp drive hyper speed at this point. And so just digesting everything that's happening all at once is a daunting task. So appreciate you stepping away and sharing what you're learning with other folks. So let's rewind back, man. Let's call it 15 years, right? And we talked about it. You're not even 40 yet, man, which is unbelievable because you live probably about like eight lives. But you got a lot to show for it. But there was a world where

Chris (01:18) Of course.

It's coming around!

Brandon (01:34) You know, you were living completely differently, right? You were pursuing your passion. You were pursuing your dream, but to have achieved, you know, kind of what you achieved in a completely different space, you have to look at the younger version of yourself and look at yourself now and be kind of impressed. Let's just start with, you know, where did you kind of begin your career? How did you make that transition into tech? And then obviously you've kind of ushered in what I'll consider to be a new level of cultural intersection with tech that we can get into in a second, but.

Let's just start off with the beginning.

Chris (02:05) Well, let's see. mean, it really started. Well, first and foremost, I still have your book, by the way. So I think it was probably over, I mean, 12 years ago. And then you have to read this book. And it was Why Should White Guys Have All the Fun? ⁓

Brandon (02:10) ⁓ Never gave it back. book is that for the record? Because this is a crowd favorite.

Yep.

Chris (02:25) And not only did I read it, but I was like, okay, I'm gonna take good care of this. And so it actually, it's such a small world because fast forward, we're now gonna be working and I've been working with Christina Lewis and Charles King and the team and we're working on actually putting that into an actual full circle film. So.

Brandon (02:30) You

Chris (02:48) You know, it's a I wanted just to give you the props on that because it's still one of the best books today. And, you know, Reginald Lewis was one of the first and best people to kind of intersect all these worlds. And it's actually kind of a blueprint because, you know, I think that you have to kind of have this this everlasting idea of what I would say what the possibilities are and not look at kind of

Brandon (02:50) ⁓

Chris (03:14) ⁓ going after big audacious goals as a challenge, but more so that there's fun on the other side. And so that's kind of how I've always seen things. I've been always had this mentality around kind of going where the 1 % are. And it's a lot of it because of mentality. So like if, you know, when I was in the music industry, I was in Atlanta, everybody wanted to be a music producer, but

Brandon (03:19) you you

Chris (03:40) Nobody really knew how to be an engineer, but the

Brandon (03:44) .

Chris (03:44) engineers were the ones that were needed the most in the room. And so rather than being in going with the crowd, you know, going against the grain and going after an industry or putting yourself into an environment where you can then actually have a competitive advantage because of how you see the world or how you do things.

To me, that's always

kind of been my North star in terms of how I see the world. And, you know, I think that when you, if you apply all of the things, at least to date in my career, what I've, how I've seen the space, I would say it really does boil into, you know, having this mentality around kind of going where other people aren't going, but then taking your genius and then applying it to, into the world.

you know, and then holding on to those beliefs that you know something that nobody else does because whether that's entrepreneurship, whether that's going into different industries, you know, whether that is starting a business, whether that is, you know, proposing a new idea internally in your corporate job or whatever. I think that that is the only not only not the only, but I think it's the best approach to

have radical change in the positive direction and also gives you the opportunity to kind of capture your insights in a way that nobody else has.

Brandon (05:09) I love that, man. We joked before we started recording, you know, I saying, you know, not even 40 yet, but you've lived a lot of lives, you know.

And the rap, know, the jergy's almost, I think, rafting level, man, to be honest. it's funny you say that because, you know, I think if you were to write, at this point, a bio, right, ahead of your time or ahead of my time would be like a good title for that. Because I would even argue when you were on the music scene in Atlanta, like Atlanta was Atlanta, you had outcasts, you had players there. But I would argue you were even early in some ways to kind of what became, obviously, what everybody noticed.

Chris (05:31) I like that, okay.

Brandon (05:44) similar to how a Silicon Valley, everything kind of really, you know, kind of converged as the place to be. was a little bit ahead of your time as far as a place to be in music. And ⁓ I remember, you you brought up like Christina Lewis, you brought up Charles King and the full circle nature of like, you know, telling this story that needs to be told. But I think, when I think about you, I think a lot of what you mentioned, which is a differentiated perspective is a big part of it. But also I think a humility, mean, you know, even when we were connecting and you said, hey, you know, we talked about the books.

Chris (05:53) Mm-hmm

Brandon (06:12) of a racist learner, kind of understanding different dynamics is a big part of what I think you get access to a room, but keeps you in the room. Can you tell us a little bit more around like how you've operated, what's your philosophy in terms of building relationships such that your perspective that you think is valuable, oftentimes a lot of people have different perspectives, but they don't necessarily make it into the rooms or stay in certain rooms. How have you approached that?

Chris (06:15) Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I think like relationships are literally what make the world go round. And, you know, I think and I learned this actually from Ken Coleman, where, you know, it's like your network is your net worth. And it's not who you know, but who knows you. And because especially when you're thinking about specific times when you're you want people to always keep you top of mind on, you know, whether it's an activation, an opportunity, a job, a

business collaboration, you name it. So what's the best way in order to do that? In my opinion, I feel like you have to always, you my mind kind of moves around in a series of different nodes. So like, if someone's talking to me about something, you know, in my mind, I always have a running network of

who we can kind of either one bring into the space, whether it's a co-investment opportunity, whether it's a partnership, whether it's, you know, just an introduction that's going to be super valuable and not waste anybody's time. And I think that over time, want, Pete, you have, there's two different things. There's one, there's pick up the phone relationships. And so that's like when you're actually doing deals and we need to make things happen. You need to make sure that you're building a relationship with somebody to such a degree.

that if you need something, all you need to do is pick up the phone and call them, not shoot an email, not get an introduction. And the more of those you have in your tool chest and actually leverage them, I feel like it gives you a competitive advantage in terms of really believing that anything is possible when you're actually in the field trying to make things happen. Because through that,

through actually thinking through how you can help other people in terms of connecting the dots and creating valuable opportunities. One, it gives you a much wider range of what's possible. if somebody's talking about doing something and wanting to do something and you're like, ⁓ I know this person that can bring that to the table, as opposed to just having a very small ecosystem. so, you know, on top of just

networking within your circle. think networking amongst different verticals as well too. So if you're in finance, try and meet somebody, go to the founder events or go to people that are in sports because there's always overlap and there's connection points, but you have to figure out kind of how to map those worlds together. And so, but I think it all really boils down into value, especially in today's world. mean, time is...

Brandon (09:01) Okay. Okay.

Chris (09:11) finite and it's the most valuable resource we have. And I think as, you know, we develop in our careers, we realize that more and more that we need to really be extremely intentional. If somebody's sending me some random emails or, you

know, asking me for favors that and asking me to do something. And I have any I don't even know who you are. I don't know why I need to go give out my social equity.

that email is going to get archived now. know, 10 years ago, maybe I would have taken a look at it, but in a world where we need to focus on our priorities and we need to level up and we need to make sure that we're working with people ⁓ that

Brandon (09:41) No. you

Chris (09:54) are adding into your life personally and professionally, you know, you have to curate a very strategic network around that. And I think that being intentional in the requests that you have,

But rather than asking for things, I think the best way in order to actually start moving ahead is actually to figure out ways in how you can be the point guard of the game. And so being able to always talk with Magic all the time and everyone, the team loved him because he was always going to give the rock up to somebody, always going to be able to pass the ball. He always knew how to find the right person.

Brandon (10:27) Right.

Chris (10:32) And then right when the time was right, when Pat Riley was

like, look, I need you to score. And then you're like, okay, great. Now, you know, I've already established this part of the game and I can already put these buckets up. But if you need me to go take it to the next level, that's no problem. And I think that that's kind of how the world really works in business and entrepreneurship and networking, where if you're not, you know, if you're not putting people in the game,

Brandon (10:35) you

Chris (10:58) then one, you're always gonna be looked at as someone that's trying to receive stuff and two, like how are you gonna be in the mind of somebody else because of all the good karma that you've been able to deliver through the ecosystem. So that's kind of how I see

Brandon (11:12) I love that because

At the end of the day, this conversation is about private markets and the evolution of private markets and access, right? Obviously is one of the biggest levers of it. And what you just gave is kind like a masterclass of your perspective built over decades at this point, networking and building real relationships and leveling up as well, right? Where you have to then kind of focus in on where you think a transaction makes sense for you. So.

Chris (11:27) Mm-hmm.

Heck yeah. I mean, you

want to get into private markets like they're private. You know, I mean, that's that's the that that is literally the most important thing you have to keep in mind. If you want to get into private markets, you have to realize that they are private and they're private for a reason. And if you want to get into the circles, if you want to get into the ecosystems, if you want to get into that sea deal.

that early stage investment, you know, it's going to be a very finite amount of people that are going to get that exposure. And you need to make sure that you're putting yourself in the best position to get that call. And how do you do that is you have to be proactive along the way.

Brandon (12:14) So this is a great segue into one of your pieces of the legacy here, which is the Cultural Leadership Fund, which was something that you conceived of and built within Andreessen Horowitz's platform. This obviously

is a combination of that access point you just talked about, not everybody gets the memo, right? When there's an interesting investment opportunity, right? But you also realize that a lot of these dynamics are structural in terms of maybe people just don't have access to certain networks, they never see these deals, which creates, you know, or exacerbates the wealth gap, so to speak. Where, you know, where were you, you know, your own journey when you conceived of the Cultural Leadership Fund? What was the genesis of that idea? And how did you make that?

How did you formalize that into a platform that ultimately created this access?

Chris (12:57) I mean, the long story short is that, you know, it was a combination of a bunch of things happening at once, which I didn't even realize was gonna happen, but I think just the halo effect of A16Z really helped kind of bring all of it together. One, I learned very early on that, you know, you have to have an IDMAs.

And every founder has an idea maze, which is like, how has your entire life got you up into this position? So all of your previous six, your previous career experience, getting you into this moment where you have this idea that is going to be the thing for you, that you can do that nobody else can do. And for me, I came from the entertainment business, you know, when I was a music producer and engineer.

I had a startup that, a consumer startup that helped restaurants, you know, and helped restaurants have menus with smartphones and tablets and high quality photos of each dish. And then now I'm in venture capital. So I'm like, okay, how do I put entrepreneurship plus entertainment plus venture capital into one thing? And then I'm, but you know, I had no idea how to even do venture. I'm like 25 years old as Ben's chief of staff. So still trying to figure it out.

Brandon (14:04) you

Chris (14:12) But then a bunch of hipes, like quiet hype started happening within Silicon Valley where people outside of the industry

Brandon (14:21) you

Chris (14:21) in entertainment and music and fashion and film were trying to understand, you know, this consumer era that was really happening in the 2010s. So people started coming up into our office. And, you know, I remember like Carmelo Anthony came and everybody was like, just kind of.

in shock and wanted to take a photo with him. And in my mind, I'm like, I love Melo, but we should figure out how we can help get him into these deals, help him on co-investment stuff. Same thing with like a lot of the Warriors players were by even being out in the Bay, you whether it was KD or Andre, just having them kind of have an interest in Silicon Valley and being able to kind of plug those dots together.

⁓ because it was mutually valuable. It's what I called shared genius where you have the genius of the founder, the entrepreneur, and you have the genius of the cultural leader and what happens when you bring them both together and allow them to kind of help ideate on a business idea, get early stage access to where investment opportunities are happening. I was the only brother in the room.

Brandon (15:16) you

Chris (15:29) So when we're making these investments, like, hey, well, we should make sure we can get so and so in, so and so in. Not only did we were able to get them into those deals, but it started becoming its own little network. my original mentor

at the firm, his name was Michael Ovitz, and he was the founder of CAA. so that's who I modeled my early stage career off of.

just because I didn't have any, you know, venture capital bullet points to point to. So, you know, I saw his career and it kind of resembled that. And you think about networks and how networks work and how A16Z is literally built around an entire network. one ecosystem that I thought was going to be the next big one that no one in Silicon Valley really focused on was, you know, people outside of Silicon Valley. So the athletes, the entertainers, the musicians and

senior level executives that can really help power up and take these businesses to the next level. Because if you think that every single business that might start in Silicon Valley, but, in order for it to really hit unicorn status, to really scale and really go to the next level, you're going to have to have the adoption in Atlanta. You're going to have have the adoption in LA. You're going to have to have the adoption around the world. And who had what better

you know, combination to and person to work with and a, you know, someone of cultural stature that can, you know, collaborate and identify with alongside the product. And so, you know, all those things kind of came together. And I mean, it was a it's a beautiful it was the most fun I've ever had in my life, just because when you're in that flow of just doing, you know, it was fun for me. I enjoyed it. I

It was almost kind of like production to some degree where, you can just have an idea and say, let's go ahead and do this, this, this, and this. And, know, you can put these, these pieces together and really kind of see

Brandon (17:12) Okay. you

Chris (17:24) it end up turning into, know, a, you know, Wall Street Journal article or a collaboration, you know, that goes live with the company. And that was the whole emphasis. And, you know, I got the last piece is that just from a wealth.

transfer standpoint, the next generation of wealth is, at the time I knew it, but you know, from, I loved looking at Jeezy when in Atlanta, when he was pulling up in the Rolls Royce, you know, down 85. And I'm like, all right, I want to be like that or JD, same thing. And then I see some, I come to Silicon Valley and I see somebody go from a Prius to a PJ. I said, hold on a second. Like, this is a different world. I don't know what's going on here.

Brandon (18:01) I think it's that we're this. I it's

a good that I think good that I think it's a good thing that I it's good

Chris (18:07) And so I realized very early that the next generation of wealth was going to happen within the technology industry and more people that look like us needed to have a seat at that table, both from an investment standpoint and from an opportunity to even

have internships and full-time jobs within these next generation of companies that are scaling up into being the publicly traded companies you're seeing today.

So just kind of creating that bridge that connected the gap between the two. And so, you know, it's been, I think we formally launched the fund in 2018. We've done four funds since then. I have an amazing team that's running the show right now. And I think that it, we've really kind of were able to capture lightning in a bottle and really help, you know, formalize and make it official that you could have investors.

⁓ outside of traditional Silicon Valley, which sounds normal now, but at the time it wasn't, be extremely valuable and influential to the companies that our everyday people are using.

Brandon (19:11) I love that because that Michael Alvarez bio is one of my favorite books and

Chris (19:15) it's great.

Brandon (19:15) ⁓

And I understand that Andre says a firm was really largely inspired by how those agencies basically operated in Hollywood. And the simple fact that you were in a building, I remember being in Silicon Valley. I think I knew three people when I landed, you know, and it's funny you bring it up because I think yeah, I was like, knew, but it was it was through ⁓ Andre's events, cultural events, right? Where they brought a lot of together, bringing Nas in, et cetera. These are things that you just did not see.

Chris (19:30) I knew nobody.

Yeah, for sure.

Brandon (19:42) at venture firms and that became something that felt more accessible, at least to be in a room. And I'm sure you had something to do with that. But this idea of private market investing, right? Why was it so important? And even now, because you've been now been over a decade kind of watching private markets evolve. If someone is not invested in the private markets, they're largely invested in the stock market, et cetera. Tell me a little bit more around why you think it's important to...

to be in the private markets and what type of outcomes have you been able to bring to some of the folks who participate in the first, second, third cultural leadership firm?

Chris (20:16) Well, look, mean, private markets, they're high risk, high reward opportunities. But to me, I kind of viewed it as every company, not every, but the majority of companies, especially if you look on your phone right now, or if you think about which companies have really scaled up to become everyday users. mean, we continue talking about the 2010 era, like from

Brandon (20:41) Okay.

Chris (20:41) Coinbase to Instagram to Snap to Twitter to Facebook like Airbnb Dropbox and go on and on and on. Like we were consumers of those products, Pinterest. We love the products, but you know, the issue for me was that they would come to you.

The investment opportunities would come to you.

at the series D, series E round, and especially within black culture, how we already helped kind of evangelize and deliver billions of dollars of valuation just from consumer adoption, but weren't actually on the cap table at the early stages. And so, you know, when those times really kind of came together,

you the ball, the potato has already been passed. Like people already got their check. They already cashed out and then now they're giving it to you. And now you're looking at this like this is a great investment opportunity. But, you know, like when DJ Khaled was lost on the boat, lost on a jet ski and film the whole thing through snap and drove, you know, I don't even

cultural relevance and validation to the next level. Like, he should already been on that cap table before then. And there was a seed round, there was an A round. then by the time that happened, it's a multi-billion dollar business. we needed to really shift. And I think that it's not only just, I think it's everyone needs to shift the mentality from an endorsement-based mindset to an equity-based mindset.

And, you know, even if you think about what's happening in today's world, some of the most valuable companies in the entire world are still publicly traded from Snap to Databricks to SpaceX, which is finally going to go public. think about Anthropic, OpenAI, all this wealth transfer is happening through the private markets. And eventually when it goes public, you have access to it. And there's some great companies that are in the public market that are acting like they're private.

Brandon (22:40) You

Chris (22:51) in terms of scale and valuation, especially given this AI world. mean, I mean, this is nonfinancial, actually, I won't even say it because my team will end up cutting it. But, know, it's just it's just a very, very

valuable time. And, you know, the same thing with with with investing is that, you know, by getting in early,

and understanding what you're investing into and being very strategic about it. I'm not saying it's the get rich quick scheme, but you know, it is a extremely valuable asset class that, you know, traditionally our culture was not necessarily at the forefront of. Now there are a lot of us that were able to get into these deals at early stages. And, and, you know, that's why I always credit Reginald Lewis because he knocked down

for us. I give credit to Ken Coleman for how he revolutionized a lot of the industry for us to have a place in Silicon Valley. And I think that all these things are extremely credible just from a cultural standpoint. But I think from a broader perspective, it's just important to make sure that if you have access and exposure to cover those dots and

I mean, you're even seeing public companies, public stocks being traded now that are providing access to private based investments. And so there's a number of those products that are, are in the market where you can publicly invest into a company and, you know, that that's holding pre IPO businesses just because of the volume where it's going. And so, you know, there's a lot of ways to look at it, but I just think

I just believe in access and if you can get in early into the right things, they could be potentially life-changing opportunities. I think that we all need to, I don't have the stats on the wealth gap, but I don't even like the fact that we have to be included in that stat. And I think that the age of innovation and technology can...

can level the playing field and I wanna make sure that at least we have awareness on.

Brandon (24:59) Now, the harsh reality, though, so I think everybody would agree with what you're saying. The harsh reality is that, you know, I think Andresen has recently raised a gazillion dollar fund, I believe.

Chris (25:07) Two gazillion.

Brandon (25:10) like Austin Powers. And so

a lot of times, you know, the check that someone can write who's called a high earning professional, maybe they can write 25, 50 K, right? Not meaningful. In fact, more pain in trying to digest that small number, you know, from an administrative perspective, from a compliance perspective, I remember calling you up and saying, yo, I heard about this cultural leadership thing. You're like, yeah, but you got to be a qualified investor and maybe you can kind of purchase it, excuse me.

Chris (25:33) You have to be a qualified purchaser. call it a QP.

Brandon (25:36) Exactly. And so

there's a reason for this. And ultimately what that leads to is like another layer of the game, right? Where if you're trying to interact with funds or lot of the folks that have like that clear access, you got to be at another level, right? And so there's the access of like, I even understand or know about the deals that are potentially interesting? And then there's the, am I at a level net worth wise or check writing size that I can get in? And this is another kind of set of barriers. You mentioned some of the things that are opening up. mentioned that

There's some public vehicles that give you access to private market opportunities that probably surface like over the last, I'll call it a year and a half, you hear about SpaceX and Anthropic. But what are some of the other things, like what do you see in terms of the evolution of access in terms of where we are now and what you see happening to let more people into the doors in the future?

Chris (26:23) Well, I mean...

I think that there's going to be more funds. There's going to be more. One of the other reasons why I think, again, direct investments is great, but some funds you can be a qualified client versus a qualified purchaser.

Brandon (26:43) And can you break it down?

give us at a high level so people who may not be familiar with these terms.

Chris (26:49) Well, look, a qualified purchaser is probably the... You have to have basically a set of equities and a set, like whether it's a net worth, whether it's some... You have to have so much money and assets in order to actually be able to get into certain type of funds. that's...

You know, that's kind of the main reason you like, for example, a qualified client is you have to have like a million dollars in AUM, you know, with the advisor or a $2 million net worth. like for like a qualified purchaser, I think that's like around $5 million in investments and doesn't have to be a net worth. And, you know, and then they're also governed by different rules. So

And so I think that like it's a higher bar, qualified purchasers that are used for more institutional grade private funds and a qualified client is kind of a lower bar used for separately managed accounts and smaller funds. So when you start getting into, you know, the A16 Z's of the world, a lot of those times you ought to be a qualified purchaser, but with more and more funds that are starting to evolve.

as you see more more fund managers that are raising sub hundred million dollar funds, but still getting great access to early, you know, alpha and beta opportunities. can rather than you trying to go and direct invest individually, knowing that's not in your full time job, which I don't really recommend. You know, you can use kind of almost like a private version vanguard structure of getting an ETF that

allows you to kind of carry a basket and maybe you can invest into again, going back to building your network, you know, finding, you know, a emerging manager or one that has actual, you know, we call it DPI, which is basically they've given money back to the LPs and have a proven track record that now you can get exposure into some high quality private markets.

private investments without having to do all the heavy lifting. In the same way as you have your bank or financial advisor who you're paying them to move your money from your check-ins to your savings, you could do the same thing even more with, that was a Kevin Hart line, so.

to really kind of help pay management fees and in return, you now are getting some exposure on the private side.

Brandon (29:25) Got it. So, and again, this is not investment advice for the people listening. This is just kind of Chris laying out what he's seeing from an options and an access perspective. And basically what I'm hearing is one, diversify, right? So, you know, this is not about putting all your eggs in one basket and hoping for that one thing. As you mentioned, it's high risk, you know,

higher reward potentially. The second thing is it sounds like if you're not doing this professionally, you would highly recommend folks look at, you know, funds that basically do this professionally. And some of the bigger funds may not necessarily be accessible. You you talked about some of the levels of this, right? I think the folks that you're probably talking to are automatically QPs, athletes. Basically, your buckets are entrepreneurs who were successful, corporate America folks who were later maybe in their career.

Chris (29:45) Mm-hmm.

Brandon (30:09) and maybe folks that come from wealth. That's kind of like who is really cut out and available to invest in these bigger funds. But maybe the work that can be done to identify a fund that has an interesting thesis, and you focus on that fund and that fund does their homework to get you into a portfolio, diverse portfolio of companies. That might be an attractive approach for someone who is working, right? They're a busy professor.

Chris (30:15) Mm-hmm.

And then you

might have someone that might do your fund that you're investing into might get a sleeve or might get some some alpha that, hey, you know, I can I got an additional 50K available in this deal. Maybe, you know, and I'm distributing it to my LPs on a first basis. Maybe that's something you might be interested in. And then now you can kind of.

go to the 2.0 version of that and saying, okay, well, maybe I should write a check in here or maybe this might make sense or this fits my thesis as I see the world and I really believe in this company or I've heard about it before from Tonto. And so, you know, I think that that's kind of the tiered strategy.

Brandon (31:15) OK, so you mentioned thematics. And I want to kind of focus on that because I would argue the same way that you were kind of early. would argue in entrepreneurship early into the Atlanta music scene, early into tech. Even your startup was really tech enabled. At the end of the day, you can make the argument before you came to the Valley, you are already building a tech company. We are now in obviously the AI driven era. And it seems like

This is probably the biggest revolution all of us have seen. We've lived through the internet, we lived through mobile, we lived through crypto as well. And you were a big, big ⁓ early mover in the crypto space. I would love to hear where you first kind of popped your head up and said, for blockchain technology, I think this is the future. You see a lot of different opportunities. You really locked into that one. And I would argue one of the...

one of the bigger proponents at least I could think of in the earliest stages of that. And then now we're in AI. So tell us about how you locked on from a thesis perspective. What was it about, you know, that blockchain technology that fit into your personal philosophy of access? And then what are you looking at now?

Chris (32:06) Mm-hmm.

Yeah, well, think I I originally got introduced to it when we ended up winning the Coinbase deal. And that's when I learned about Bitcoin. And I'm like, what is this thing? And so, you know, understanding what the term digital Goldman and how their scarcity and, you know, 21 million Bitcoin that are going to be available and using decentralized technology and all these things.

Brandon (32:43) Okay. Okay.

Chris (32:43) But then the real thing that really kind of stuck to me and it kind of goes into the private market, QPQC thing is that, know, crypto, there's three layers of the internet. There's the read layer, which is kind of like, you know, the browser, which Mark invented

and that's 1.0, 2.0 is kind of all the things that we just talked about around the, the, the right era.

⁓ so, you know, being able to write on your Facebook wall or, know, upload a photo on Instagram or, whatever, like that's the right area. The third layer is ownership. And so that's where blockchain technology really comes into place. And the thing that was the most interesting to me is that, you know, I think that this, I thought that originally the next generation of wealth was going to happen within

just private markets, but the opportunity. But again, there was still a barrier that you had to have in order to get into those deals with Bitcoin. The only in other types of tokens and crypto technology, the barrier is information. And so, you know, anyone could have purchased it at one dollar, a hundred dollars, a thousand dollars, ten thousand dollars, whatever. If you knew what it was, you knew how to get it.

Right. But there was no you need to be a qualified purchaser. You need to be this. You need to be that. You had to have access to the information. And so through and the thing that we talk about here and I think the underlying theme is ownership and you need to figure out the world of how crypto is actually rebuilding the rails of ownership. And I think when I when that connected to me is when I realized that it's going to be.

one of the most transformative industries of where the world goes. And I learned this part from Ben and he would say way more eloquently than I will, but there's this world where we call like crypto computers and networks. within each generation of major technology innovation, you're going to have these combination of computers and networks. And the last big one that really took off was when you have the smartphone.

and the iPhone revolution, which was the computer. And then you had the network, which was the internet and being able to combine those two together really created a transformational opportunity that allowed that last era of companies to be built. And what we're seeing right now is the next generation version of computers and networks where the computer that's going to be built.

in this generation that's being, that's rebuilding all the entire rails of every single company you can think of is AI. And the network that is going to represent the connected dots between the two is going to be crypto. And so even though it doesn't look very apparent right now, the collaboration between these two products, you're going to see more and more

Brandon (35:25) you .

Chris (35:41) opportunities to really kind of have the intersection between this crypto, these computers and network kind of come together, which to me makes me

extremely excited about both products. the last thing I'll say is that in regards to AI, mean, it's going to be all over the place in a good way, but the one

thing that I'm most excited about is in this last era, I like said, we've known each other for almost 13, 14 years. You know, when I was in Silicon Valley, you had to know how to code. Who's your technical co-founder? If you didn't have one, it was over. There was a huge barrier to entry in order to get your ideas out and turn them into a company. People spend hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to find devs.

You know, offshore dev shops and this and that. And by the time you build a product and then you go try and pitch a company and they figure out your product is built by a dev shop. And once you're done with that product, it's automatically done. And I saw this time and time again, and people that had great ideas that the products ended up getting, you know, to a good MVP, but never could make it to the next level because from a network standpoint, people didn't necessarily know who the right engineer was. didn't go to the.

top school, you didn't study computer science, all these types of things. But now, you know, with AI, we're really leveling the playing field. And with these tools and these models that are coming out right now, anybody has the opportunity to turn your idea or whatever you think you believe that you can solve. And with the right tools that are constantly being upgraded and deployed every day.

We're going to see a whole new wave of companies being built. And that makes me extremely ambitious, not only for the future of entrepreneurship, but the future of creativity, limitless supplies of where things are going to go. And then also from the next generation of jobs that are going to be built. You know, I think that for so long, companies had to, you had, I also Ben Ben game talked about this a lot. It's like,

Brandon (37:32) Hmm.

Chris (37:50) you if you wanted to work at Microsoft or Google back in the day, like you had to go through this constant, you know, junior manager, mid-level manager, senior manager, I don't even know the stack, but it's a long way up, right? You're having AI now kind of restructure every single tool, every single company from, because we're rebuilding the railroad online right now with these products and with

both of these tools combined, which basically levels the playing field because if you know how to use these things, you are literally 15 people in one. And companies are looking for that. so because, know, AIs is something that came out, you know, it took 60 years to get here, but it's here now and it's only going faster and faster because of Moore's Law.

And I think that this is the number one skill that I think that everyone should be paying heavy attention to and to really figuring out how to implement it into your systems. I'm seeing more more companies and more and more CEOs encouraging people to integrate these products and use them to their advantage because they understand the...

the ROI that's gonna come from this. And I feel like we are in the digital renaissance at the perfect time and it's ours for the taking. know.

Brandon (39:22) No, I

love that because you started off by saying you're about ownership, right? At the end of the day. And that was one of the things that really got you excited about blockchain. And I think you dropped a lot of...

Chris (39:31) Right there.

Brandon (39:34) a lot of game in there. I'm going to try to unpack real quick for the audience here. So one thing is the blockchain piece, you're basically saying is just getting started. It's the intersection of AI and blockchain, which is going to eliminate a lot of the barriers that exist currently for people to participate in some of the more interesting opportunities with upside. And so that's something that as an overall theme is something we should get excited about because, know, gravy wealth is all about ownership is in, you know, shifting people from that earner mentality to that owner mentality.

Chris (39:36) You

Brandon (40:01) I think the second thing you mentioned I thought was really interesting is this idea of the builder mindset that we should have. And I remember these days being in Silicon Valley where it almost felt like it was impossible to get VC, right? And if you couldn't get VC, you still had to get this developer to build for you. And it was like this chicken and egg trap, which you kind of outlined. And a lot of people might come out of their pocket, 50K to build something, and you never really got the engineer, which was ultimately what you needed.

Chris (40:17) Yeah?

Brandon (40:26) to be sustained, right? That is completely gone. And it's increasingly so because it went from, maybe you can do a couple of things here and there, but things are moving so fast now that, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if you could almost build a full stack as a non-engineer in the next couple of years, depending on how things are going. So a lot of barriers basically are kind of already dropped for builders. And you're saying from a overall investor perspective to own.

Chris (40:39) Mm-hmm.

Brandon (40:52) is now going to expand your opportunity as blockchain is able to meet with AI. I think these are really interesting principles for people who want to shift into ownership.

Chris (40:59) That was like a Google summary. That was good. That was good. Look, I don't even say nothing. You got that on point.

Brandon (41:03) I'm still, I'm still, I'm not fully, fully reliant yet.

No, look, on the last note, and I know you got to get back to business, this ownership theme, can you, know, a lot of folks who are watching right now, many of them are, they are the successful people in their circles, right? They got the good job. They've been able to take care of themselves, you know, get a good degree, but a lot of that feels insecure now. And there's some fear, right? You kind of laid out an optimistic case, but for folks that are in corporate, you're seeing Microsoft laying off 9%, you're seeing Meta.

Et cetera, these are the high earning jobs. Wall Street, the ones that people went to business school are looking to lock down. Those jobs, the lawyers, et cetera, they're all kind of taking a hit. Why do you think it's so important right now to focus on ownership? Not just for today, but for where things are going in the future from your perspective.

Chris (41:52) Well, I'll end like this. think ownership has, there's two different components. One, I think ownership is involved just from a financial concept to even like an identity concept. like, and you need to own your taste, need to own your network, you need to own your point of view, you need to own your time.

Financial ownership is just a downstream of all of those things and the cap table follows your conviction and how you see the world and not the other way around. So I think that on one level of ownership, if you don't have a stance on terms of how you view the world, I think that other people are gonna create that around you, which then will leave you behind the scenes. And so I think that you wanna really take ownership in terms of where that goes.

The second piece, which I feel like is, you know, with everything and it's the, I mean, it's just the power of compounding interest and how important it is to just start now on all of these things. I mean, you know, from saving to investing to taking, you know, accountability into your tools that

Brandon (42:43) . you

Chris (43:05) your tool chest and what's going on right now to getting reps in and knowing these AI models

to, you know, putting, you know, a piece into different type of exposures that are, that you feel like where the next generation is going. I think that if you don't do it now, it you're it's, there's always a time to do it, but you just missed out on.

⁓ you know, the greatest thing in the world, which is compound interest. And ⁓ I think that you have to kind of be, you know, you have to be able, okay, with taking a little bit of risk. And the last thing, that's the last thing I'd say is like, have to embed on yourself. ⁓ And, you know, I think that the biggest...

Brandon (43:31) Okay. Okay.

Chris (43:51) trait that is for

successful founders, successful executives, successful anyone that's in Silicon Valley doesn't even, you don't have to be in Silicon Valley, but have the mindset as courage. And so you have to have that courage to actually go out and do the thing and go out and speak up in an industry or vertical or try something new or the courage to go out and build a company or the courage to make that investment.

Brandon (43:54) Okay.

.

Chris (44:21) with the information that you have. And I think that if you can do all of those things, then you realize that ownership is a personal thing and all of these external pieces are just reconfirmations of you actually going out and trusting in yourself. And so that's the greatest level of ownership to me.

Brandon (44:43) I love that. Anything that's here that you got going on right now that we can support?

Chris (44:47) Um, yeah, support, support my wine brand. You need a good celebration. You know, definitely like that's one thing I'm always, I always like to have a little side hustles and things that I'm just very interested in. And so, you know, like, and also it's a good way for me to kind of map my tools around. And so I have a Lambrusco sparkling red wine. So in case anybody ever needs to celebrate, you can go celebrate. You can go support that.

Um, what else could we support? think we have a number of nonprofits that are also really helping advance the next generation of, um, you know, people outside of the Silicon Valley industry to learn how to code and learn how to do other things like that. And so, um, I I would put that in on the top of the list. And, you know, I think that we're constantly figuring out new ways in order to innovate. And so I think that the other, the last thing to support is like,

through mind sharing and putting things together. So if you find interesting opportunities in which any of us can collaborate on, I read all my emails, I'm always up to speed on everything and just feel free to reach out and I'm always happy to help. But that's all I can say right now. I wanna make sure that we can support each other and we keep this system going and we keep on holding each other accountable.

Brandon (45:57) But surely Okay.

Chris (46:03) because I feel like if we can do that, then all things are possible because if we don't do it, somebody else will. So let's all round each other up and keep going.

Brandon (46:13) Virtual round of applause from my man Chris Lyons. Always been real since day one. Seen it all, done it all, and still just beginning.

Chris (46:14) I appreciate you Now, congratulations to

you too bro. I mean, this has been very exciting to see the evolution and the journey. Like we said, this is long overdue, but you know, I'm very excited for everything that you got going on. And I know that this has been a valuable experience for everybody here. And I think that, you know, we can all do our parts to help, you know.

really advance our ecosystem and this is a valuable platform to do so.

Brandon (46:45) Appreciate you, man. All right. That being said, we'll do a part two with Chris some point, maybe next year. Here's some stories about some of these rooms. Now, Chris, appreciate you, my man. Let's you go. All right. Take care.

Chris (46:53) Let's go. All right, I'll see y'all. Appreciate you,

man. All right, catch you guys soon.